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Sanhedrin 8:1-8:4
Sanhedrin8: 1
בֵּן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה — מֵאֵימָתַי נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה? מִשֶּׁיָּבִיא שְׁתֵּי שְׂעָרוֹת וְעַד שֶׁיַּקִּיף זָקָן — הַתַּחְתּוֹן, וְלֹא הָעֶלְיוֹן; אֶלָּא שֶׁדִּבְּרוּ חֲכָמִים בְּלָשׁוֹן נְקִיָּה — שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ,,כִּי־יִהְיֶה לְאִישׁ בֵּן” — בֵּן וְלֹא בַת; בֵּן וְלֹא אִישׁ. הַקָּטָן פָּטוּר שֶׁלֹּא בָא לִכְלָל מִצְוֹת.
A ben sorer u’moreh —- when does he become a ben sorer u’moreh? From when he produces two hairs until his beard grows around —- the lower, not the upper; but the Sages employed delicate terminology —- as it is written: If a man shall have a son —- a son and not a daughter; a son and not a man. A minor is exempt because he has not entered the realm of commandments.
Sanhedrin8: 2
מֵאֵימָתַי חַיָּב? מִשֶּׁיֹּאכַל טַרְטֵימַר בָּשָׂר וְיִשְׁתֶּה חֲצִי לֹג יַיִן הָאִיטַלְקִי. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר: מָנֶה בָשָׂר וְלֹג יַיִן. אָכַל בַּחֲבוּרַת מִצְוָה, אָכַל בְּעִבּוּר הַחֹדֶשׁ; אָכַל מַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי בִּירוּשָׁלַיִם; אָכַל נְבֵלוֹת וּטְרֵפוֹת, שְׁקָצִים וּרְמָשִׂים; [אָכַל טֶבֶל, וּמַעֲשֵׂר רִאשׁוֹן שֶׁלֹּא נִטְּלָה תְרוּמָתוֹ, וּמַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי וְהֶקְדֵּשׁ שֶׁלֹּא נִפְדּוּ;] אָכַל דָּבָר שֶׁהוּא מִצְוָה וְדָבָר שֶׁהוּא עֲבֵרָה; אָכַל כָּל מַאֲכָל וְלֹא אָכַל בָּשָׂר; שָׁתָה כָל מַשְׁקֶה וְלֹא שָׁתָה יַיִן — אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה, עַד שֶׁיֹּאכַל בָּשָׂר וְיִשְׁתֶּה יַיִן, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ,,זוֹלֵל וְסֹבֵא”. וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין רְאָיָה לַדָּבָר, זֵכֶר לַדָּבָר, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ,,אַל־תְּהִי בְסֹבְאֵי־יָיִן בְּזֹלְלֵי בָשָׂר לָמוֹ”.
When is he liable? When he eats a tartemar of meat and drinks a half-log of Italian wine. R’ Yose says: A maneh of meat and a log of wine. [If] he ate at a gathering for a mitzvah, [or] he ate at the [meal for the] intercalation of the month; [or] he ate maaser sheni in Jerusalem; [or] he ate neveilos or tereifos, [or] abominable or creeping animals; [(or) he ate tevel, (or) maaser rishon from which its terumah had not been taken, or maaser sheni or hekdesh which had not been redeemed;] [or] he ate something which is a mitzvah or something which is a transgression; [or] he ate any food but meat; or he drank any beverage other than wine —- he does not become a ben sorer u’moreh, unless he eats meat and drinks wine, as it says: He is a glutton and a drunkard. Although there is no proof to the matter, [there is] an indication to the matter, as it says: Be not among wine bibers and gluttonous eaters of meat.
Sanhedrin8: 3
גָּנַב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אָבִיו; מִשֶּׁל אֲחֵרִים וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אֲחֵרִים; מִשֶּׁל אֲחֵרִים וְאָכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אָבִיו — אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה — עַד שֶׁיִּגְנֹב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וְיֹאכַל בִּרְשׁוּת אֲחֵרִים. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: עַד שֶׁיִּגְנֹב מִשֶּׁל אָבִיו וּמִשֶּׁל אִמּוֹ.
[If] he stole from his father and ate in his father’s domain; [or] from others and he ate in the domain of others; [or] from others and he ate in his father’s domain —- he does not become a ben sorer u’moreh —- unless he steals from his father and eats in the domain of others. R’ Yose the son of R’ Yehudah says: Unless he steals from his father and his mother.
Sanhedrin8: 4
הָיָה אָבִיו רוֹצֶה וְאִמּוֹ אֵינָהּ רוֹצָה, אָבִיו אֵינוֹ רוֹצֶה וְאִמּוֹ רוֹצָה — אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה — עַד שֶׁיְּהוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם רוֹצִים. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: אִם לֹא הָיְתָה אִמּוֹ רְאוּיָה לְאָבִיו אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה. הָיָה אֶחָד מֵהֶם גִּדֵּם, אוֹ חִגֵּר, אוֹ אִלֵּם, אוֹ סוּמָא, אוֹ חֵרֵשׁ, אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ,,וְתָפְשׂוּ בוֹ אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ” — וְלֹא גִדְּמִין; ,,וְהוֹצִיאוּ אוֹתוֹ — וְלֹא חִגְּרִין; ,,וְאָמְרוּ” — וְלֹא אִלְּמִין; ,,בְּנֵנוּ זֶה” — וְלֹא סוּמִין; ,,אֵינֶנּוּ שֹׁמֵעַ בְּקֹלֵנוּ” — וְלֹא חֵרְשִׁין. מַתְרִין בּוֹ בִּפְנֵי שְׁלשָׁה וּמַלְקִין אוֹתוֹ. חָזַר וְקִלְקֵל, נִדּוֹן בְּעֶשְׂרִים וּשְׁלשָׁה. וְאֵינוֹ נִסְקָל עַד שֶׁיְּהוּ שָׁם שְׁלשָׁה הָרִאשׁוֹנִים, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ,,בְּנֵנוּ זֶה” — זֶהוּ שֶׁלָּקָה בִּפְנֵיכֶם. בָּרַח עַד שֶׁלֹּא נִגְמַר דִּינוֹ וְאַחַר כָּךְ הִקִּיף זָקָן הַתַּחְתּוֹן, פָּטוּר. וְאִם מִשֶּׁנִּגְמַר דִּינוֹ בָּרַח, וְאַחַר כָּךְ הִקִּיף זָקָן הַתַּחְתּוֹן, חַיָּב.
[If] his father was willing and his mother was not, [or] his father was not willing and his mother was willing —- he does not become a ben sorer u’moreh —- unless they are both willing. R’ Yehudah says: [If] his mother did not correspond to his fa-ther he does not become a ben sorer u’moreh. [If] one of them is missing a hand or was lame, mute, blind, or deaf, he does not become a ben sorer u’moreh, as it says: And his father and mother shall seize him —- which excludes those missing a hand; and they shall take him out —- which excludes the lame; and they shall say —- which excludes the mute; this son of ours —- which excludes the blind; does not heed our voice —- which excludes the deaf. They warn him before three and flog him. [If] he repeats his misdeed, he is judged by twenty-three. He is not stoned unless the original three are present, as it says: this son of ours —- this son, who was flogged in your presence. [If] he fled before the sentence was pronounced and his lower beard then grew around, he is exempt. If he fled after the sentence was pronounced and his low-er beard then grew around, he is liable.
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